Report 1650
Special Report #1650 Skillset: Kata Skill: Poisons Org: Moondancers Status: Rejected Dec 2007 Furies' Decision: We do not find any of these solutions appealing at this time. Problem: Current monks do a very high affliction rate in terms of affliction output per singular hit, by using both venoms and their monk abilities, often ending up with 6+ afflictions per form if done right. This report aims to slightly address this, by revisiting the usage of venoms by current monks. Solution #1: Limit the ability for weapon poisons to trigger only on the basic monk weapon attacks ( shofa, tahto, nekai, etc) Solution #2: Remove the ability for monks to evenom their weapons. Instead, introduce an ability for them to 'poison punch', allowing their basic 'punch' to deliver a venom instead. Syntax something like 'envenom left fist with mantakaya' Solution #3: #1 and reduce/remove the ability to shrug the poisons delivered this way. Player Comments: ---on 3/28 @ 07:41 writes: I want to emphasize this, that I understand this as a base for discussion. One of the monk players gave me the idea and I felt like it's worth considering, as it would make it easier to balance the monk classes by limiting the random factor that poisons have. I didn't feel like outright removing poison usage from monks was a good idea, but I feel having a compromise like this would be a good discussion point. So please, do ahead and discuss and if the consensus is that this is not the way to go, I still feel it's a worthy discussion to be had. ---on 3/28 @ 08:09 writes: I'll have to think on it some more but my initial impression is that I support solution 1. I think if we went that route then the rub rate should be guaranteed but not shrugging. This gives monks who sacrifice their guaranteed afflictions to try for a poison a bit of a boost but also provides an incentive to use skills like oolibah or go for damaged organs. I think adopting something like this would make it much easier to balance the skills in question, if implemented we would need to verify that all monk specs can still maintain an appropriate amount of aff pressure as I'm sure some are more poison reliant than others. ---on 3/28 @ 15:19 writes: I'm sort of in the same boat as Wobou and it seems like an idea with merit. Monks from my understanding are rather affliction dependant on top of bruising/bleeding to reach the ceiling for their kill conditions, which are restricted to the highest stance in a form aside from the vital pressure to get there. While I feel it may be heavy handed to really do away with poisons on this scale, perhaps solution 1 could state poisons triggering on base/twist/center? stances may have such a restriction to kata weapon attacks alone so it doesn't feel so overwhelming to those on the receiving end to start. The monk will still be able to reach a reasonable ceiling with their bleeding/bruising + afflictions to pull off their kill conditions if that is the path they're choosing this way. To me, this could be ideal, and the best of both world solution. Although I guess that's up for discussion as well. ---on 3/28 @ 19:34 writes: Solution 3 kind of removes the drawback of using the basic attacks. They do more bleed/damage/whatever in return for not doing an affliction as I understand it. Solution 2 sounds weird and not the direction I think we should go. Solution 1 could be ok, but I'm not sure it's necessary or desired. Overall I think it might be best to adjust afflicting rates through other methods. ---on 3/29 @ 06:08 writes: This is probably an impossible to code suggestion but what if monk armed actions "tried" the poison first and failing that performed the aff associated with the action? So take kumati form shofangi for example, kumati chest causes rigormortis. If I envenom it with mantakaya it'll attempt to rub paralysis, if the rub fails or the target shrugs then I get my rigormortis, otherwise I get paralysis. If I wipe the shofa before attacking then I always get rigormortis (asusuming no parry). This allows a monk to RNG their way to affs they would prefer with a fallback without increasing the monk aff rate. ---on 3/29 @ 08:33 writes: I'm not opposed to this idea. But I do agree with Shedrin somewhat, that there can be other ways to adjust the aff rate as well. I think the admin are also considering removing the early stance afflictions, perhaps, and also further locking kick afflictions to surge etc, that will limit the aff rate. I think that might be better overall, if we lower the guaranteed afflictions at the lower stances. Tentatively, if those changes don't materialize (or they are not enough), this would be a good idea to pursue instead. ---on 3/29 @ 18:32 writes: Supported. I would support going further and removing the ability for monks to use poisons, period. If the monk needs additional afflicting power, it makes more sense to give them skills in their specific skillsets to address those needs in a more targeted, controllable way. It doesn't make sense at all to pin monk afflicting balance to warrior afflicting balance (and bard afflicting balance and druid afflicting balance through ecology). ---on 3/29 @ 20:44 writes: Poisons are a large part of monk combat thematics, though. ---on 3/31 @ 01:40 writes: I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of the report and while I agree that monk output is currently high, I place the blame more on stance bonus affs and similar effects (the special kicks) than monk weapons tbh ---on 3/31 @ 14:38 writes: With the recent changes to remove afflictions from base/twist/centre stances, and also lock kick afflictions behind surge stane, I think it will be a good idea to put this on hold. ---on 4/18 @ 04:15 writes: Thematically including "poisons" as a source of monk afflicting is possible outside of the existing poisons mechanic, and it allows a more fine-tuned approach to each problem affliction or aff stack.